My Devil's Advocate
So lets do a little imagination game. Lets imagine that you have a few problems with your neighbors. Like every now and then they try to move their fence into your yard. You have your disputes but we all know you're not perfect, but neither are they. You also have some neighbors down the street that you get along with and hang out with on occasion. You both go to the same church, you look sort of the same, and while you don't agree on everything you consider them friends.
Now lets pretend that someone says to your neighbor, "Hey that's my land." Your friends go to the courthouse and can say they have a 200 year old claim to your friends house. Not really the house, but the land the house was built on. Lets pretend you're orange and so are your friends. The people trying to kick your neighbors out aren't orange, th
ey're purple. And they don't go to your church. The Purple people then take over your neighbors land and let a purple family live their. They claim its where they should live, even though your neighbor bought the property years ago and for 200 years nobody said anything to them. In my opinion that's not really fair to our orange friends.
Now lets pretend the Purple people start making other orange people move off of "purple" land. Orange people are treated like second class citizens. They are oppressed. They no longer have the rights as orange people in your neighbors old house. Orange people are punks. They also smuggle in nuclear weapons from their other orange friends who "gave" them the land. Also the orange people don't like you. Sometimes they threaten your other neighbors. At one point they bomb your other neighbors that also go to church with you.
OK the analogy has broken down. Pres. Ahmadinejad of Iran is faced with this problem. This week he made some good points at Columbia U. I'm starting to agree with him on a lot of points. Jewish people were granted land that belonged to Muslims for thousands of years. Why? Because of the Holocaust of course. Pres. Ahm. is notorious for doubting the Holocaust, and I don't blame him. If someone took over my neighbors house because they were suddenly oppressed in Europe then I question what oppression took place too. Also why didn't the Europeans give them a place to live in Europe instead of shipping them Western Asia? Because they're racist against Jewish people and didn't want them living in their back yard either. So ship em out.
Also it is pretty well known that Israelis are punks to Palestinians. I can't say I wouldn't terrorize people that took over my land. In fact on of my heros, Francis Marion, did exactly that. Israelis treat Palestinians like dirt, sometimes even confining them to cities and trying to settle on their land. It ticks me off. Though it may not be it makes it seem like a religious issue. Also the majority of Christians living in Israel today are Palestinians. So I've got to back up my brothers and sisters in Christ.
People give Ahmadinejad a bad rap, and I'm sure he deserves a lot of it for state
sponsoring of terrorism. In fact I'm not defending that and I think its awful. But the man has some good points.
1. Israelis have no right to a. Israel and definitely b. Palestine
2. Israelis have nuclear weapons and have been aggressive toward Islamic neighbors in the past. Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to develop a program to protect itself. Or even better how bout we gank the nuclear weapons from Israel.
3. Nuclear power is the way of the future. Oil producing countries probably know this better than anyone; why shouldn't we allow Iran to join the modern era of clean energy.
4. Scholars look for proof, as did the Greeks. Why shouldn't he be able to see ground zero or the gas chambers in Auschwitz?
5. The President of Columbia was a punk to him. In the south we have something called "hospitality." If you invite someone to your house, don't bash em at the dinner table.
6. He wears a cool jacket instead of really fancy suits and stuff.
7. A gay-free nation wouldn't be so bad; you wouldn't have to worry about tapping your toe to the beet of a song in an airport restroom. : )
Paul " I still don't like the guy" Murphy
but he's got some good points.
So lets do a little imagination game. Lets imagine that you have a few problems with your neighbors. Like every now and then they try to move their fence into your yard. You have your disputes but we all know you're not perfect, but neither are they. You also have some neighbors down the street that you get along with and hang out with on occasion. You both go to the same church, you look sort of the same, and while you don't agree on everything you consider them friends.
Now lets pretend that someone says to your neighbor, "Hey that's my land." Your friends go to the courthouse and can say they have a 200 year old claim to your friends house. Not really the house, but the land the house was built on. Lets pretend you're orange and so are your friends. The people trying to kick your neighbors out aren't orange, th
ey're purple. And they don't go to your church. The Purple people then take over your neighbors land and let a purple family live their. They claim its where they should live, even though your neighbor bought the property years ago and for 200 years nobody said anything to them. In my opinion that's not really fair to our orange friends.Now lets pretend the Purple people start making other orange people move off of "purple" land. Orange people are treated like second class citizens. They are oppressed. They no longer have the rights as orange people in your neighbors old house. Orange people are punks. They also smuggle in nuclear weapons from their other orange friends who "gave" them the land. Also the orange people don't like you. Sometimes they threaten your other neighbors. At one point they bomb your other neighbors that also go to church with you.
OK the analogy has broken down. Pres. Ahmadinejad of Iran is faced with this problem. This week he made some good points at Columbia U. I'm starting to agree with him on a lot of points. Jewish people were granted land that belonged to Muslims for thousands of years. Why? Because of the Holocaust of course. Pres. Ahm. is notorious for doubting the Holocaust, and I don't blame him. If someone took over my neighbors house because they were suddenly oppressed in Europe then I question what oppression took place too. Also why didn't the Europeans give them a place to live in Europe instead of shipping them Western Asia? Because they're racist against Jewish people and didn't want them living in their back yard either. So ship em out.
Also it is pretty well known that Israelis are punks to Palestinians. I can't say I wouldn't terrorize people that took over my land. In fact on of my heros, Francis Marion, did exactly that. Israelis treat Palestinians like dirt, sometimes even confining them to cities and trying to settle on their land. It ticks me off. Though it may not be it makes it seem like a religious issue. Also the majority of Christians living in Israel today are Palestinians. So I've got to back up my brothers and sisters in Christ.
People give Ahmadinejad a bad rap, and I'm sure he deserves a lot of it for state
sponsoring of terrorism. In fact I'm not defending that and I think its awful. But the man has some good points.1. Israelis have no right to a. Israel and definitely b. Palestine
2. Israelis have nuclear weapons and have been aggressive toward Islamic neighbors in the past. Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to develop a program to protect itself. Or even better how bout we gank the nuclear weapons from Israel.
3. Nuclear power is the way of the future. Oil producing countries probably know this better than anyone; why shouldn't we allow Iran to join the modern era of clean energy.
4. Scholars look for proof, as did the Greeks. Why shouldn't he be able to see ground zero or the gas chambers in Auschwitz?
5. The President of Columbia was a punk to him. In the south we have something called "hospitality." If you invite someone to your house, don't bash em at the dinner table.
6. He wears a cool jacket instead of really fancy suits and stuff.
7. A gay-free nation wouldn't be so bad; you wouldn't have to worry about tapping your toe to the beet of a song in an airport restroom. : )
Paul " I still don't like the guy" Murphy
but he's got some good points.
posted by Paul Murphy at
11:45 PM
5 Comments:
What about the Irgun and the Stern Gang? Are you leaving them out of the foundation narrative you are paraphrasing?
By
Anonymous, at 9/26/2007 9:26 AM
Pmurph - very good (although sometimes wayward) post. Isreal is a nation given to invaders and supported hugely out of the US. Let us not forget that Isreal have previouslt fought with their other neighbours Egypt. I do not think it very fair to blame those supportive arab countries of terrorism though. It seems to me that they are getting pretty tired of the support the US has given to Isreali terrorism not to mention the US invading various middle eastern countries to install their values of freedom and democracy on a people who do not share the same value systems. Then if the Middle Eastern peoples stand up in defence of their countries and way of life then they are labelled terrorists and shipped of to some bay in Cuba which seems to be devoid of any international laws where people are abused and tortured. I do not think it takes much of an intellectual push before people start questioning whether the 'terrorist' card is the work of the worlds best spin doctors.
By
Anonymous, at 9/26/2007 12:34 PM
In a side note the US senate was trying to get Pres. Bush to label the Iranian something guard a terrorist organization. Which they probably are.
By
Paul Murphy, at 9/26/2007 6:58 PM
"1. Israelis have no right to a. Israel and definitely b. Palestine"
Hmm, interesting that you would say that, since Israel has "rights" to that land dating back to the time of the Conquest. Palestinians/Arabs (who ethnically are NOT Philistines) showed up…well, later.
And really, the sad truth of the world is that when you lose wars, there are consequences.
After WWI, Germany had to deal with a lot of harsh conditions because they lost the war. So did the Ottoman Empire, who previously controlled Palestine, but had the misfortune of being Germany's allies. Their punishment, among other things, included losing sovereignty of the Holy Lands.
The day after Israel declared independence in 1948, they were attacked by Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. They still managed to win their independence, and keep their land. In the years since then, Israel has been other times (Six Day War, Yom Kippur War, for example), and have held/won territory by winning wars. Like I said, that's how wars work.
Closing Points:
1. Arabs/Palestinians' claim to Israel and Palestine dates back to the 600s, CONSIDERABLY later than the claims of the Jews themselves. The idea that they have more "right" to Israel/Palestine is, well, laughable.
2. Because of the nature of jihad, Muslim territory can never become non-Muslim territory, so Muslims still see the Holy Land as rightfully theirs and will continue to fight for it.
3. Palestinians are ethnically very different from Iranians. People from Iran are actually Persian. They are both predominately Muslim.
4. The Israelis are not saints. As you said, they treat Palestinians pretty badly sometimes.
By
Luke Dockery, at 9/27/2007 4:06 PM
In this modern era it's laughable to think of moving a ethnic group of people into an area and expect everybody to be happy. Our views on Israel are different and I understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree with it. Sorry man, I still love you.
By
Paul Murphy, at 9/27/2007 7:20 PM
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